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Interview with Gregg Gibbs
Contributed by Sara Schieron
Friday, 12 May 2006
TREASURES
OF LONG GONE JOHN opened to a sold out crowd at the Roxie for the
Opening Night of DocFest 2006. This film that begins chronicling the
collections of Long Gone John, the man who began Sympathy for the
Record Industry and The Necessaries Toy Foundation, slowly widens its
lens to introduce the creators of the pieces in Long Gone John's
massive art collection. Featuring interviews with Artists such as Todd
Schorr, Shag, Mark Ryden and Robert Williams, the film looks at the
work of these artists almost to the exclusion the film's namesake. It
isn't until nearly the end of the film that Long Gone John is brought
back to the foreground and we see that his influence as a patron is, in
some ways responsible for the inertia of what is unquestionably a Los
Angeles movement quietly sweeping the world.
Filmshi: Coming in I knew that art was involved and I knew I'd see Camille Rose Garcia, for example, but I expected something more of an emphasis on Long Gone John's collection of ephemera. At what point did you decide you had to focus on the art as opposed to the other items in his collection?
Gibbs: I'm a painter, so I was more interested in his art. The main impetus for me to do this film was that Todd Schorr was working on this painting and an aspect of documentary I really appreciate is span of time. I knew that to follow Todd doing this activity could tie the film together and also demonstrate to people that the process of making a painting is a difficult thing - to film, because it's such a boring task. Like watching grass grow
Filmshi: Or watching paint dry?
Gibbs: I quickly came up with the idea of doing it in time lapse and when I figured out how I'd do it I called Todd and told him my idea and he agreed to go ahead with this time lapse camera that would be watching him in his home while he works on this painting for 230 odd days. And we knew at the end of it that I would have a film out of this. It really depended on his involvement and of course he was enthusiastic and said he always wanted to document the making of a painting and even, as a kid had played with a time-lapse system.
The time lapse system was an iBook with a still camera attached to it and it clicked at an interval of ever 60 seconds and it would immediately go into the iBook and with this program from Boinx Software called iStop Motion, it would condense it into a film and every week I would go to his studio and download off the book and bring it back to my studio to work with the footage.
Filmshi: It's really interesting because the things in Long Gone John's collection were collected over the span of his life. And there's a really nice parallel occurring between this painting which takes 236 days - which, quickly, how many days short of that is a year?
Gibbs: It's like between 9 and 10 months.
Filmshi: So almost a year of Schorr's life and it's worth noting the painting is eight feet by six feet, not that he's not meticulous but it's an interesting parallel that the process of collection and the process of the painting -
Gibbs: It was interesting. I would visit him weekly to pick up footage and notes and talk about our processes. He was always very interested in what was going on and we'd talk about how my interviews were going and how the film was coming along and he'd talk about how his painting was coming along - how one section was coming along and that sort of thing. Being involved with him during his work gave me the sense I was collaborating with him, in a way...although I didn't have anything to do with the painting. That was one of the most enjoyable things about the project: working with Todd.
Filmshi: So, Long Gone John has a collection of ephemera, toys, random objects, what not and a collection of art but he sees them all having equal importance, equal value. Tell me about the journey with his toy company. Did he ask his favored artists to collaborate with him or design toys for him? How did he broker this transformation of art into consumer products?
Gibbs: Most of the mainstream consumer audience in America sees fine art as an elitist kind of think and it's therefore not a relatable part of their life. Toys are a new way to tap into art - it's been going on in Japan but it's relatively new in Japan as well. They have different ideas about low art and high art, consumerism and art - they don't see a big distinction. All culture is really the same, in a way. It's all relevant to...
Filmshi: ...to whoever cares about it?
Gibbs: Yeah. I was really fascinated with the toy movement and I barely just skimmed the surface on it. It's called the Urban Vinyl Toy Movement and it's exploding and everyday there's more and more artist designing toys, some artists who exclusively design toys. Like Frank Kozik, he did a lot of other art but he's becoming more and more known for his toys - more so than for his poster art and his painting. And it's really pushing, or fuzzing, the boundaries between consumerism and this elitist fine art world. This whole commodity oriented idea; something that could be populist like that goes against the grain of what established art institutions are all about. The whole idea of a sculpture being a unique object has gone wayside and while that's not been a problem historically - like Rodin's bronzes -
Filmshi: Or the David?
Gibbs: Well, the original David is in marble. The others are copies.
Filmshi: And they're in parking lots all over Italy.
Gibbs: Yeah (laughs). Rodin's bronzes were based on moulds and he could make many of them from a mould.
Filmshi: Like the toys but in vinyl.
Gibbs: Very much. They make a sculpture and create a mould from it and then make many, many, many, copies. And they're the same, relative to each other, in that they're each unique pieces of art - but on a different level.
Filmshi: - and for a different audience.
Gibbs: it's accessible. It's opening up a lot of people to the art of the people in the film. You can go out and buy a Todd Schorr sculpture for $50. And maybe that gets people more interested. Once they have a toy then maybe they want a print and then they work up to having an original oil painting. I think it's incredible that it's making the art more accessible to own and to interface with, and it's got its own sort of parameters, like the boxes and the limited editions and there are - the name escapes me... there are the generic mould toys that different artists decorate in different ways like the bears and the Kubricks and a number of those forms that each artist takes to make his or her "own."
Filmshi: So then the impulse is to collect them, and get every different version?
Gibbs: Can be, it's an accessible art collection - collectible. All the artists consider them sculptures or multiples.
Filmshi: Gateway drug?
Gibbs: Like Tim Biskup said, "it's like the marijuana of the art world".
Filmshi: Do you feel THE TREASURES OF LONG GONE JOHN is a gateway drug into a community of artists they wouldn't otherwise know about?
Gibbs: Yes. Well, I hope. One of my motivations was to turn people onto these artists and to make that arena of interest a more accessible reach. I wanted these artists to reach a wider audience because part of me really resents the fine art world being so elitist and being such an inside club, excluding everyone else. Robert Motherwell compared art to physics and said it's on that kind of level, and that not everybody can understand physics and I really resent that kind of attitude. I think art is the most important thing in people's lives, in that it distinguishes us from animals, but it's also the least important, in that it's the last thing one needs to survive.
Filmshi: John says his art is not a necessity.
Gibbs: Right, he calls it "frivolous."
Filmshi: Yes, that's it. But that's an issue in my mind. Art may be frivolous to one person but as a culture it's seminal.
Gibbs: I asked him about that after we had that interview and he held to his position. I think he really feels that it isn't necessary. It's funny that his toy company is called "Necessaries Toy Company" and he's sitting next to Necessaries toy boxes when he says it. I was really happy that issue made it into the film, I think it's such a fundamental topic, I mean really, is art necessary? What is culture for? Where is culture going? And that's ultimately what the film is about. What is culture and where is it going?
Filmshi: And you wove the topic of "lowbrow" into the issue of culture and progress as well.
Gibbs: Right, they all hate the name.
Filmshi: I found that funny. When I learned about "lowbrow" moons ago what I learned was all about embracing your "lowbrow-ness." At the same time, it's perhaps the people who were writing those things when the term was collegiate, that are now saying the term is ...deprecating.
Gibbs: Well, I mean, it's obviously the opposite of "high brow" which means anything "low" is a knock right away. "Highbrow" is an insult too though because to be "highbrow" means you're working "above" everyone. It's conceited. From that stand point "lowbrow" can be a compliment.
Filmshi: How?
Gibbs: It's taking, whatever "brow" means - I guess it has something to do with raising your eyebrow? And saying it's of the importance of a brow but embracing subject matter that is considered of low or base value.
Filmshi: Provoking a physical response?
Gibbs: Well, relating to "fun" things. Relating to play and stimulation. It is visceral as opposed to intellectual and it's naturally made its course through art history because art has repeatedly been reduced to theory. Conceptual art represented the end of the 21st century. The young avant-garde really rejected the intellectualizing of art and embraced more urban, and tribal arts - tattooing, piercing etc - it's not high art, it's the property of prisoners and seafarers. Now it's considered art and is an influence on "lowbrow" which has taken from outsider and non-cultural topics and subject matter.
Filmshi: Is film low art?
Gibbs: I don't know...that's a hard question.
Filmshi: You know, I ask because you're a smart guy and you used John as a catalyst to talk about these artists. You could choose whatever medium you wanted and you chose film.
Gibbs: I really wanted to deal with the music. I felt like it was the main influence in the art and the collecting. I think the roots of lowbrow are deeply imbedded in punk rock and the D.I.Y. philosophy. The so-called "lowbrow" artists represent that as well. They do things themselves: their own art, their own toys, their own websites, their own books, they have commodities that they generate. This used to be frowned on because commodities like this were seen as trivializing art. Art is supposed to be above all of that.
Filmshi: Above money? Film isn't above money.
Gibbs: Art is supposed to be, above money and consumerism.
Filmshi: The golden bowl?
Gibbs: Right. This art, these toys are an extension of our capitalist society. It was meant to happen, it makes sense. It's strong because it has roots and purpose and it's gonna last. How it lasts will be very interesting. How this art will appear on the secondary market will be very interesting. How these toys will be sold on auctions. How will its value change? This as well changes with the Internet and eBay. As Gary Baseman says in the film, these toys that sold originally for $40, now you can find them on eBay for $750. That's a secondary market that has increased the value because of the demand.
Filmshi: Does street credibility have anything to do with that?
Gibbs: You know there's another movement called the Beautiful Loser Art Movement - are you familiar with them, they're in San Francisco.
Filmshi: Who's involved in that?
Gibbs: Twist and Chris Johansen and their roots are a little different from the lowbrow guys because they embrace more of a street culture: graffiti, urban experiences...at the same time they're very sophisticated.
Filmshi: I'm so glad to be educated in that.
Gibbs; You know, I was nervous in the screening that the audience wouldn't feel that ways.
Filmshi: What way?
Gibbs: Well, there's that traditional disdain with L.A. and San Francisco. You know, there's the impression that L.A. has no real culture of its own and if you're going to present something about L.A. culture people are going to roll their eyes.
Filmshi: Your film fully disproves the idea L.A. has no culture of its own.
Gibbs: Something is really going on in L.A. right now and I don't think that we've had a movement in Los Angeles...unless you maybe go back to the Finish Fetish artists in the mid 60's. For the most part, L.A. has some influential artists, particularly Mike Kelly, Paul McCarthy, who are more conceptual artists. Both of them, by the way, deal with low culture and embrace and borrow from low culture subject matter but in a rarified, sophisticated way that ties into the lineage of art history. I don't think you can put the lowbrow guys in the lineage now. In other words, you can trace Jackson Pollack all the way back to Rembrandt and one artist after another, as the dominant art styles change, the artists can still be connected to each other. Pollack connects to Picasso - he's trying to do Picasso strokes with his drips and that's how he gets to his automatism and psychological archetypes. Picasso was a descendent of Corbet and the impressionists and Corbet was a descendent of Ang and Ang goes back and the lineage goes on and on. Lowbrow doesn't have that. They're outside that lineage. Their roots are bomber pilots in World War II painting their planes -
Filmshi: Pulp novel covers?
Gibbs: 60's psychadelic posters, R. Crumb, Underground Comics, those guys are the heroes of the lowbrow artists.
Filmshi: What films did you watch to prepare to make this film?
Gibbs: I worked with Jeff Feuerzeig on THE DEVIL AND DANIEL JOHNSTON. I was his art director and he was really interested in pushing the form. He did things to mimic commercials and music videos and working with him I realized how very much can be done with documentaries. I decided I wanted to do crazy things with this film. I have music video going - well, almost music video - for a part, and animating the work of the work of the artists was a part of that idea. I felt it brought a cinematic quality to the paintings that, if we had just filmed the paintings, would not accurately portray the dynamism of the work. I did a lot of strange inserts and b-roll. Working with Jeff really opened my eyes to what I could do and I waited until I found the perfect subject matter, which I feel I did with Long Gone John, to begin.
To find out more about the THE TREASURES OF LONG GONE JOHN, please visit http://www.thetreasuresoflonggonejohn.com/ For information on upcoming screenings, please go to http://www.thetreasuresoflonggonejohn.com/news.html
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